Omer (00:11.840)
Welcome to another episode of the SaaS Podcast.
I'm your host Omer Khan and this is the show where I interview proven founders and industry experts who share their stories, strategies and insights to help you build, launch and grow your SaaS business.
Today's episode is part two of the interview with Rob Rawson.
Rob is the Co founder and CEO of Time Doctor and staff.com Time Doctor is an app that helps you manage your time and your team's time more effectively.
And Staff.com is a global recruitment platform that helps companies hire talented people from anywhere in the world.
Rob originally trained as a medical doctor and worked in hospitals in Australia for three years before becoming a full time entrepreneur.
In episode one we talked about how he grew TimeDrop Doctor from an idea to a business that has an annual run rate of over a million dollars.
Now in this episode we get tactical.
I pick Rob's brain about specific things that early stage entrepreneurs can do to get customers without spending a lot of money.
We talk about how to use Quora to generate traffic and new customers, how to do content marketing with product comparison articles, how to use infographics and a secret to getting lots more shares, how to create real value for your potential customers in advance and a simple technique to becoming a more productive entrepreneur.
Let's get tactical and talk about marketing.
You know, you spent several years building, you know, Internet marketing online businesses.
You've done very successfully with Time Doctor, which is now grown into a million dollar business.
You've launched staff.com what is your approach to marketing a a software business?
What has worked for you and hopefully what are some of the things that our audience can learn from that.
Rob Rawson (02:22.550)
So some of the marketing strategies that have worked has been the content marketing.
All sorts of infographics that I've done, looking at very specific targeted infographics and content marketing, looking at competitor comparison articles.
So looking at what are our competitors and comparing ourselves with them.
It's a very simple kind of concept.
And and then I mentioned before, posting in Quora is like a really simple thing to do and it can lead to business.
And there are some other sites like that, but Quora is actually probably one of the best ones.
And that kind of grassroots thing where you just getting a community by communicating with people and adding value, whatever you do and you post on your blog or you post in Quora has to be better quality content than anybody else has posted.
So that's part of the strategy is just putting out amazingly good content.
I have done podcasts before.
That's another thing that I'VE done.
I wasn't actually seeking out to do the podcast with you, but because I've done a number of podcasts before that I did actually create.
I contacted every podcast person that I could think of.
For some reason, I didn't contact you, and I actually ask them all.
You know, I got someone to introduce me and I did podcasts.
So it's about all of those kinds of things.
There's a lot of different strategies.
Omer (03:56.910)
I don't take it personally.
And I tracked you down eventually anyway.
All right, so maybe let's start with Quora.
So how are you finding the right kind of questions?
And what were some of the.
The specific steps you were taking there to.
To.
To, I guess, generate, you know, potential business?
Rob Rawson (04:24.690)
Sure.
We would just search for anything that is related to outsourcing.
So look for a bunch of different keywords.
I just keep brainstorming keywords, look at other articles on Quora and come up with other keywords.
They have categories as well.
So look at everything in the category.
Then I'd look at.
Can I give a good answer to that?
Cause even if I can give a good answer and I have my link to my site actually in the answer somewhere, or I just say like, hi, this is rob from stuff.com and then at least they know that it's there.
Like, I don't put it as promotional because that.
That's going to backfire.
But I do make sure to mention my site in the posting.
Another tip is to actually put images.
And so you actually create an image because that creates more attention and draws people.
The.
Whatever you've posted, it takes a long time.
And it's not like you're getting a huge amount of traffic or a huge amount of customers.
But if you don't have any money or if you're just starting out, this is a perfect strategy to start with.
Omer (05:28.910)
So when you were doing this in the early days, how much time would you spend on a typical answer that you felt was high enough quality to stand out?
Rob Rawson (05:39.310)
I'm a fairly fast writer, so I would say probably 20 minutes.
And sometimes I would be basing it on research that we'd done before.
So I've researched lists of all of the top CRM software.
So if someone asks about CRM software, then I already have that list pre prepared.
And I had an assistant in the Philippines who would research that list.
Omer (06:03.850)
Okay, do you.
Do you have a sense of maybe how many questions in total you've answered on Quora to date?
Rob Rawson (06:10.730)
I'm guessing about 300.
I actually haven't been active on it for a while because it's more of an early stage strategy.
Omer (06:21.070)
Yeah.
Okay.
So for early stage, Quora can be a good potential one to look at.
You also talked about the competitor comparison articles.
That was an interesting idea I haven't heard of before.
Were you, were you actually creating this content and comparing yourself against different products?
Rob Rawson (06:46.440)
Yes.
Basically I would create an article which compares our software with another competitor, preferably a competitor that's a little bit larger.
And then you're going to get some of their customers who are researching or potential customers are researching about their software and they might come over to you.
It doesn't really do you as much benefit to compare yourself with someone that's 10 times smaller than you are, but it does help if they're a lot bigger than you're going to get.
They've got all of their marketing and their traffic and their referrals.
People are searching online, they see your article, they might come over and decide to use you.
I try to make it genuine, Obviously it's, it's slanted towards me, but.
And to our software.
But I did say the benefits and I'd say, look, in this situation, you might want to use that, their software, so that sort of thing.
Omer (07:38.110)
And typically like, how long would this type of article be?
Rob Rawson (07:44.510)
Not too long.
I think it is better if you put a lot of details and you put a table and you put some good graphics in it.
That's probably more important than the length, is the readability and how good the graphics and the table is in the article.
Omer (08:00.830)
Were you posting these articles on your own blog or were you going out and trying to get them onto other sites?
Rob Rawson (08:07.930)
I posted on my own blog.
I think if you can get it on your own site and another site that has a lot of traffic, that's fantastic.
But I wasn't able to do that, so it was on my own blog.
And it's more for SEO.
And we would then also go through a systematic process of how we would promote that.
We might promote it in Google groups and also in Facebook groups.
We would send it out on Facebook and LinkedIn community, things like that.
Omer (08:43.910)
And so how, how do you, how do you post this in a Facebook group?
Like, like what would the typical post look like?
Rob Rawson (08:57.910)
I mean, I mean, direct comparison article.
You probably couldn't post in a Facebook group because it's too promotional.
Omer (09:03.830)
Yeah.
Rob Rawson (09:04.310)
If you had something more like a, a comparison of all CRM software, so it's really just purely informational and very useful, then you could compose Something like that, because it's really valuable information and it's comparing every single CRM software on the market.
So I've done things like that.
But if it was just comparing our software to a competitor, it's just, it's too obviously promotional and it's just going to backfire in a way.
If you propose that you can still post it on your own LinkedIn and a few places like that, you can post it.
We have done things with our Filipino employees and posting it in the comments on blogs that are related to.
Exactly related to that topic.
But I think that that's a very marginal strategy.
It doesn't really do that much.
Omer (09:57.680)
So you mentioned the comparison of CRM software.
Now you're not in the CRM business, so how does that play into what was your thinking behind there in terms of creating that type of content?
Rob Rawson (10:12.380)
My thinking is that anyone who has CRM software, although they're not directly looking for our software, they may be the very fact that they have a software as a service product that they're buying, they're purchasing, they might be interested in other software as a service products.
So it's quite simple like that.
Omer (10:30.110)
Okay.
And I think that that actually is a.
A great point that I think we all should think about in terms of not just thinking about the content, but also thinking about your potential user or customer.
And I think that the better you understand who they are, then you can identify these, these other, you know, maybe they're not directly related to your product, but other needs that these same customers have that you can help to provide information on, like you did with the CRM examples.
So understand the customer better, I guess.
Rob Rawson (11:09.020)
Yes.
Omer (11:11.340)
Do infographics still work, do you think?
Rob Rawson (11:15.420)
I think if they're really good, they can work.
What worked for us actually was getting our Philippines team to.
So we'd post an infographic that we thought was great and then we'd look for similar infographics which you can do through a reverse image search in Google.
So you basically go to Google Images and then you drag and drop the image of not your infographic, but other successful infographics that are similar.
You look at where they were posted and then you basically contact all of those places about, hey, you might be interested in this too, because if they've posted something similar, they may very well be interested in posting yours.
Omer (11:56.650)
That is a nice ninja marketing strategy there.
So let me make sure I got this right.
So you have an infographic that you've produced that you want to promote.
You're using Google Image search to find similar images of infographics or similar types of infographics and then, and then you're kind of looking at the information about those particular images to figure out where, which sites they're on because that gives you some insights into potential.
These sites could also potentially be the ones that would promote your infographic.
Rob Rawson (12:33.200)
Yeah, they have literally promoted some other person's infographics, so there's no reason why they wouldn't promote yours, especially if the infographics are in a similar topic area.
Omer (12:44.970)
Now did you do, when it comes to content marketing, did you do any sort of guest posting or did you mainly decide you were going to build out, focus on building out content for your own blog and generate some more longer term traffic through SEO?
Rob Rawson (13:03.530)
We have now hired a guy who's doing some guest posts and so he's doing, doing that for us.
But I actually didn't really do that strategy of guest posting myself.
I just didn't have time and didn't really know how to do it effectively, I guess.
Omer (13:22.810)
So let's say, you know, somebody listening to this has a, a new product, you know, maybe something that they're just about to launch.
They don't have any customers today, maybe they don't even have any traffic coming to their website right now.
What would be your advice to them to, to try and focus on, let's say in the next three to six months.
And I guess, you know, it's sort of going back to that quote that you shared earlier, the Tony Robbins quote about, you know, the path to success being taking massive action.
What advice would you give them?
Rob Rawson (14:09.350)
Find out how you can provide value to the customers, the potential customers that you're looking for, whether that's through amazing content, whether that's through creating a free piece of software that you give to them initially, whether it's through a podcast, whether it's through just literally asking them what they need and finding out like how you could personally do something for them as, as, as detailed as actually going to their house and doing something for them.
I mean, whatever it takes basically to, to help your customer so that they're going to want to do business with you.
And, and that's basically it.
So looking at, I did it through content, but it's not the only strategy.
It depends really on the type of business.
If it's B2B and you have, you're only looking for three customers, it's going to be a very different strategy that's more based on personal relationships.
But if you're looking for a consumer product that you need thousands of customers, then maybe content marketing is a good way to go.
But whatever content you do, look at how you can make it the best on the Internet.
Literally how you can say genuinely that your article is better than anything else on the entire Internet and then spread that through your friends, through social media, through groups, through social media.
And so that's how I would start.
Omer (15:38.630)
That's great advice.
And for someone who has had incredible success building a software business and is not a technical guy or has a, or actually has a background as a doctor, that's, you know, remarkable.
It's a remarkable story and it's, it's very impressive what you've been able to, to accomplish.
All right, Rob, it's now time for our lightning round.
I'm going to ask you a series of questions and I'd like you to answer them as quickly as possible.
Rob Rawson (16:12.010)
All right?
Omer (16:13.450)
What's the best piece of business advice that you ever received?
Rob Rawson (16:17.770)
I think it's the attitude of never giving up.
So it's just constantly, keep going, keep going, keep going.
Omer (16:25.890)
What book would you recommend to our audience and why?
Rob Rawson (16:30.530)
Getting Things Done, which is by Robert Allen said, fantastic book on productivity.
Omer (16:38.850)
David Allen.
Rob Rawson (16:40.050)
David Allen, sorry.
Yes.
Omer (16:41.570)
Cool.
Yeah, I love that book.
I remember that because it's right in front of me.
It's a great book.
What's one attribute or characteristic in your mind of a successful entrepreneur?
Rob Rawson (16:54.320)
The visionary.
They have a vision for the future that they want to create.
Omer (16:59.840)
What's your favorite personal productivity tool or habit, apart from time?
Dr.
Rob Rawson (17:07.360)
It's a very simple habit which is to make a list of the top things you're going to do for the day.
And to work from the top of the list down the list.
You start at number one, you go to number two, you go to number three.
That makes sure that you're focusing on the most critical things.
The other thing is that you make it each day.
You don't necessarily work on all of your to do's.
I have hundreds and hundreds of to dos, literally that I am never, ever going to do, and that is productivity.
If you work on all your TO dos, that means you're not productive because it means that you're working on unproductive, low level, unimportant things.
Instead of that, you should write those things down that you might do one day and then write the real list of what are the important things do those.
Omer (17:55.390)
So when you write that daily list, how do you prioritize that list?
Rob Rawson (18:00.670)
I try to prioritize the thing that I think is the most critical for me to get done.
It's a complicated algorithm of how I do that.
I also try to do the first thing in the day before doing emails.
I try to do something that's challenging and going to make a big difference to my business.
Omer (18:21.290)
Good advice.
If you had to start over tomorrow, what type of business or problem would you want to go out and tackle?
Rob Rawson (18:34.010)
There's a lot of things that I've thought about, but there's one that's actually Mobile apps for.
That are able to spread virally.
I think is a great area to get into.
And there's one that I'm actually looking at is the.
An energy comparison app where you have a mobile app that compares your energy bill.
So that's one area.
Just anything where there's a really good business opportunity.
But it's.
It's not going to take a massive effort to create the business.
Omer (19:08.630)
You are just full of these ideas.
I bet you we could just spend an hour just talking about these ideas that you have.
Rob Rawson (19:14.230)
Yeah.
Omer (19:15.670)
All right.
What's an interesting or fun fact about you that most people don't know?
Rob Rawson (19:21.520)
On the way to this interview in my car was shouting at the top of my lungs.
Omer (19:28.480)
What were you shouting?
Rob Rawson (19:30.160)
I was shouting my vision and purpose in life and things like that.
Omer (19:34.880)
Wow.
Is that from the Tony Robbins kind of.
Rob Rawson (19:39.280)
Yes.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
Omer (19:41.200)
What does he calls that?
Sort of daily incantations.
Rob Rawson (19:44.320)
Incantations, yeah.
Omer (19:45.920)
Do you do that every day?
Rob Rawson (19:48.200)
I do because I just did his seminar recently.
So I redid it after a few years.
So I am doing it every day.
Omer (19:58.040)
I know this is the lightning round, but I got to stop and ask you about that.
So you said.
You told me that you had done that 15 years ago.
This is Date with Destiny.
Rob Rawson (20:09.560)
Yes.
Omer (20:10.440)
What was your reason for going back and spending another.
I guess this is five days with.
With people shouting and screaming and.
And all that other stuff that happens there.
What was.
What was the reason you went back?
Rob Rawson (20:23.900)
The reason is to get in touch with my deepest core passion and.
And drive in my life.
And I think that it did that absolutely.
Like, it made me realize that I haven't given all.
Even though I'd been working hard at my business every day, I wasn't necessarily working on the things that would make the biggest difference.
I wasn't necessarily working with an attitude that I would make it happen, that I would do what it takes to make it happen.
So it's a.
It's like a 1% difference really between just working and working with absolute certainty.
And determination that it's going to actually succeed.
Omer (21:03.310)
And coming back from that event, what has changed for you?
Rob Rawson (21:11.560)
That level of determination has changed and the level of belief in my goals and ability to achieve them.
And the other thing that has changed is that my level of attention when we're with my children before, I was always a little bit distracted, always thinking, oh, this might be something else important.
But it also helped to change that as well.
Omer (21:39.080)
That's awesome.
Okay.
And so finally, the question was, what is one of your most important passions outside of your work?
Rob Rawson (21:46.440)
I love skiing and I love spending time with my kids.
Omer (21:50.680)
2 both very worthwhile activities, although actually I would suck at skiing.
So I'll just spend time with the kids.
Great answers.
Robert, I want to thank you for joining me today and sharing your experiences and insights with our audience.
And thank you for letting us get to know you a little better personally as well.
Now, if folks want to find out more about Time Doctor or Staff.com, they can go to Time Doctor.com or Staff.com and if they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Rob Rawson (22:29.160)
Think if they just use the contact us methods on those sites and just ask for me, they'll be able to get in contact.
Omer (22:37.240)
Awesome, Rob.
Thanks again, and I wish you continued success in the future.
Rob Rawson (22:41.720)
Okay, thanks a lot.
Omer (22:43.000)
Cheers.
