Omer (00:10.000)
Welcome to another episode of the SaaS Podcast.
I'm your host, Omer Khan, and this is the show where I interview proven founders and industry experts who share their stories, strategies and insights to help you build, launch and grow your SaaS business.
In this episode, I talk to Sunny Patel, the founder and CEO of Insure Me, a SaaS platform that helps insurance carriers generate leads, streamline claims, and deliver customer service through an AI driven assistant.
During his freshman year of college, Sonny got a job at an insurance agency in Arizona.
He was surprised to see how the insurance industry was still operating with outdated technology, and he wondered why it wasn't easier and faster for consumers to buy insurance online.
A couple of years later, that question was still bugging him.
So he eventually decided to start Insure Me out of his dorm room.
But Sunny didn't know how to code and needed help to get his idea off the ground.
He eventually found an accelerator in Arizona that worked with him to develop his MVP for a B2C comparison website where you could shop for insurance.
He spent the next year and a half trying to get his idea off the ground, but he soon realized that it was a crowded space and he'd need a lot of money to build a successful consumer product.
Around that time, he also started talking to execs at insurance carriers.
They seemed intrigued by what he was building and asked if they could license the software.
And that's when he realized that pivoting to a B2B product was a more interesting opportunity.
In this interview, we talk about the pros and cons of working with a startup accelerator.
How to have better customer conversations by learning to speak their language, how to develop a sales playbook to shorten your sales cycles and close six figure deals, and how to get better at identifying and overcoming objections your prospects may have.
As a founder, it's important that you can become your company's first salesperson.
Eventually you can hire your own sales team and VP of sales and so on.
But in the early days, no one is going to be able to sell your product better than you.
So there's some good insights in this interview and I hope you enjoy it.
Sunny, welcome to the show.
Sonny Patel (02:37.770)
Thanks for having me.
Omer (02:39.050)
Do you have a favorite quote?
Something that inspires or motivates you or gets you out of bed that you can share with us?
Sonny Patel (02:44.670)
Yeah, a couple of them.
I mean, I think the one that always think about is be the change you want to see in the world.
I think that's a quote by Mahatma Gandhi.
Omer (02:54.350)
Yeah, I love that one.
So for people who aren't familiar with Insure Me, can you tell us what does the product do, who is it for, and what's the main problem that you're helping to solve?
Sonny Patel (03:08.510)
Yeah, so we have built an AI assistant named Violet at InsureMe that automates sales, claims and customer service for insurance providers.
So that's your insurance carriers, agencies, brokers, and TPAs.
We are solving for the big problem of digital customer engagement.
It's an industry that has done business primarily offline or through people for hundreds of years.
And now there's a great shift that's happened where, you know, the customer expectations as it relates to the digital experiences are at the levels of what Amazon offers or Netflix, Apple, Google, and insurance companies offer a experience that is just really behind the curve.
So a huge, big disconnect between the customer expectations of today and the customer experience that insurance providers deliver.
But we've built Violet to bridge that gap.
Omer (04:04.650)
So help us understand sort of where you are in terms of size of business.
How big is the team?
How many customers do you have?
Sonny Patel (04:11.300)
Yeah, so we have 12 employees here out of Phoenix, Arizona.
We're a Post seed company, and we've currently worked with multiple carriers here around the United States, ranging from regional carriers to the Fortune 100.
Omer (04:25.220)
And you've raised just over a million dollars so far, right?
Sonny Patel (04:30.020)
Yes, so we have.
In terms of outside capital, we've raised 1.1 million.
Omer (04:35.140)
So how did you come up with the idea for this business?
Sonny Patel (04:37.710)
My freshman year of college, I was working.
I got a job at an insurance agency here in Arizona and was working there and saw the real need for a solution like Violet.
I could see how outdated the industry was operating and how we as an agency were selling our solutions.
So thought to myself that, hey, you know what?
Like, in a.
And again, in an Amazon world where you can buy anything online, you should be able to buy your insurance in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
And looking at the market, especially the US Market, most companies didn't have that ability.
So I left that agency in my junior year, after about two and a half years, and founded Insure Me in 2016 out of my dorm room.
Omer (05:22.190)
So tell me a little bit more about the opportunity or the gap in the market, because when I first came across Insure Me, you know, I was trying to sort of figure out, where does this fit in?
And you talked about the industry being kind of behind the curve.
But then, you know, on tv, we're sort of seeing, you know, ads for geico, and in 15 minutes online, you can do whatever you want.
So where does insure me fit in?
And is there a specific segment of the market that you're sort of focused on?
Sonny Patel (05:56.250)
So, yeah, we have built Violet for the legacy industry.
So these are companies that were built 200 years ago.
They are still operating through, you know, human agents, big call centers to service their customers or sell their policies.
And with now with Violet, they're able to essentially market their solutions online, direct to consumer help, process customer claims through a beautiful conversational experience without, you know, a very large call center or provide a 247 self service tool to their policyholders.
They are newer players in the market, like Lemonade, that offer, you know, really great digital experiences.
But the majority of the market is, would be, you know, classified as this, you know, legacy segment that really don't have many digital solutions for their policyholders.
So a very fragmented customer experience ends up being delivered.
And we built Violet to essentially enable these legacy providers to take this new approach to customer engagement.
Omer (07:00.870)
Okay, so you, you see this opportunity on your, during your internship for this type of product.
How did you get started?
Did you sort of go out and start talking to more potential customers?
Did you validate this idea?
Did you get started on building a product right away?
What happened next?
Once.
Once this spark of an idea.
Sonny Patel (07:26.550)
Yeah, so I actually was the director of sales at the agency.
So I see, you know, the challenges firsthand our agents would have trying to market our solutions in person or through some of the traditional methods that we had.
And so I saw it firsthand.
I traveled to a couple of different industry conferences and I was able to hear, you know, what the kind of executives were talking about, you know, as it relates to how they see the industry transforming over the next 10, 20 years.
And everyone was saying customer experience, customer experience.
And it just made perfect sense to me.
But once the light bulb really went off, I partnered with an accelerator here in Phoenix named Coplex.
And we essentially worked together to build out our first mvp, which was a.
The first MVP for Insure Me was actually a comparison site.
It was a direct to consumer B2C comparison site where you could go online and shop for insurance and buy a policy online anytime without having to go through someone.
So that was our initial idea.
And as we started to speak with more customers and get into another accelerator, the Global Insurance Accelerator in Iowa, we had the ability to really have deeper conversations with insurance carriers and their executive teams.
And we saw that what we had built was really intriguing for them, but they just wanted to license the, the software they, you Know when they, they're like, oh, you know, this comparison site is cool, but can we just use what you build?
So we found that pivoting to a B2B offering and licensing out our software to insurance carriers was kind of a greenfield and that's kind of the path we ended up going down for the long term.
Omer (09:12.590)
So what type of accelerators are these?
Because these don't sound like your YC or techstars or something like that.
Like where are these?
You know, why were these insurance companies involved in these?
What was the, the main purpose of these accelerators?
Sonny Patel (09:27.640)
Yeah, so for Coplex, their whole thesis is that they essentially partner with industry experts that are trying to build software companies.
So they bring the technology expertise to the table and then the founders or the founding team brings the industry expertise.
So they essentially help you take an idea for a software company that has great potential to transform usually a legacy industry and they work with you on bringing that idea to life.
So working with you through building out the mvp, hiring your initial team members, tech leaders, things like that, and the Global Insurance Accelerator which we were part of in 2018, they are an industry specific accelerator, so vertical specific, they are all about insurance.
They have 14 different large insurance carrier investors that are have invested into the Global Insurance Accelerator and provide mentorship to the startups.
A ton of they also invest in the startups and then they act as their initial customers as well.
So helping the startups kind of validate that MVP and refine their approach to product market fit.
Omer (10:39.300)
So are you a developer?
Do you code?
Sonny Patel (10:41.300)
I do not.
I don't know how to write a single line of code.
Omer (10:44.820)
That's okay.
So who built the first version?
Or was that through the acceleration or was that like, did you, did you find somebody yourself to help you start building the product?
Sonny Patel (10:54.960)
Yeah.
So the team at coplex provided an amazing dev team that helped us build out our first MVP for Insure Me.
And once we had raised our round last year, we brought on our full time in house team that now leads a whole technology roadmap for our company.
Omer (11:14.560)
And so you said you started off with this sort of B2C product and it was really about helping people to do basically comparison shopping and find the best insurance.
How long did you go down that B2C road until you decided to pivot and focus on a B2B solution?
Sonny Patel (11:37.000)
It was about a year and a half actually.
So the first year of insurance, I'd say summer of 2016 to summer of 2017, was just ideating, you know, I was still in college at the time.
So it was a, you know, weekend type of oh, this idea, let's see where it goes type of thing.
But I only really started running with the company after I graduated in 2017.
We spent that first full year, I would say a full time work, really trying to validate if we had something there in terms of the B2C comparison site.
But we found that, you know, it's a crowded space and it's a type of business model that you need to raise a lot of money for to even make a dent in the market.
And it wasn't a space that we thought we could really be number one in.
So that's why we had applied to the Global Insurance Accelerator to join that program and see, well, okay, well here's what we have and we know we're solving a big enough problem, but maybe we're solving it for the wrong stakeholder, if you will.
Right.
But once we joined that accelerator, it was just a matter of months till we figured out that, okay, we had to make that pivot to a B2B offering if we wanted to build a market leading company.
Omer (12:51.190)
So what did that mean for the product?
Did you have to spend a lot of effort in terms of rebuilding or rehauling the product?
I mean, if you've been working on this for the last year and a half, focused on consumers, what did that mean when you pivoted?
Sonny Patel (13:06.960)
So yeah, we had to do some obviously re customization to make it work for an individual insurer.
But we had built a solution that essentially could market a insurance product online.
You know, so walk a customer through needs analysis, quoting application and binding.
Obviously that was built initially to do that for a bunch of different companies.
Right.
In the form of a comparison site.
But we essentially adapted it to a point where we could just white label it out to one company so they could offer their individual products on that platform.
So there was some dev time there to reconfigure everything, but it wasn't too much of a pivot from what the core system could do.
Omer (13:51.340)
So you've got this B2B product now.
And tell me a little bit about what the sales cycle looks like.
Firstly, in terms of where most of your leads or where have they mostly come from so far.
And then typically what's the process you go through to sell to one of these customers?
Sonny Patel (14:16.240)
Yeah, so we have leveraged these accelerators pretty heavily.
We've gone through the Global Insurance accelerator that brings 14 big companies to the table.
We've gone through plug and Plays Silicon Valley and Singapore.
In short, tech specific accelerators in 2019 that bring it's.
It's almost over 100 different companies across the world and then we're now actually part of the InsurTech New York accelerator that is another biz dev focused accelerator that brings another 20 odd insurance companies.
So how we have kind of approached the market and really gotten the word out on Violet which is our solution now we've kind of personified her into a relatable name that people can now understand that okay, insure me offers Violet.
She's a AI assistant that can be customized for all these different things.
It's made it much easier for us to one market the solution because before it was little confusing when you go and say oh well we have a conversational AI platform for this and that it kind of just goes over people's head.
So the from a marketing standpoint we've made that change this year but really just leverage these accelerators.
I mean they are.
And again it's a little bit different from your like YC that will invest in the company and then you know, take a percentage.
These are all primarily biz dev focused accelerators.
So there is no exchange in cash or equity.
But they essentially will vet out the top insurtechs there that they want to connect with or connect to some of the leading insurance providers that are out there.
Beyond that, we've also leveraged conferences when they were happening.
Obviously now we're in a COVID 19 world, but we've done a had a very strong presence at most of the bigger and short tech conferences that are out there.
So the ones in Asia, Europe and here in America we do a lot of thought leadership.
So content marketing, online sharing, what our technology can do or just conversational AI in general, what that technology can do for this industry.
Sit on a lot of innovation panels and things like that with other thought leaders in our space and really just done it that way.
You know, this is an old industry and they do things a little bit different, right.
It's not.
The buyer is not going to be scrolling through Instagram, you know, and going to be like oh, I need that at my company.
It's a, it's a very complex sale and it's done through traditional means.
But now in a COVID 19 world we are looking at more digital avenues to market Violet.
So we are running digital ads on LinkedIn currently and then we're going to be starting video ads and things like that on some of the other social networks as well.
Omer (17:10.410)
Okay.
So I want to talk a little bit about the accelerators because there seem to be a lot of benefits and you joining these accelerators has definitely helped you to accelerate, get momentum, figure out some of these problems, make connections.
So it sounds like a lot of upside.
What's the downside of an accelerator?
So you not giving away equity in the business.
But what are you, is it sort of like a rev share type thing?
And are there any other downsides?
So if somebody is thinking about an accelerator, what, what are some of the pros and cons for the these types of organizations that you've worked with?
Sonny Patel (17:53.270)
Yeah, so there, you know, for the ones that are primarily biz, dev focus, like Plug and Play and InsureTech New York.
They, you know, for the most part there's not much downside because if you can get, it's hard to get into it in the first place because they have hundreds of applicants and they'll only select 10 or 20 companies per year.
But if you can get into it, there's not much downside.
You just have to make the time commitment, obviously be a part of the deal flow sessions, be receptive to feedback from mentors and potential customers.
But for the accelerators that will make that, you know, do take an equity stake in your business for a, you know, a cash investment or something else, I would say you just gotta be a little wary there because you, some of the, sometimes the deal terms won't be favorable or founder friendly.
You just gotta be aware of what you're signing there.
But in our experience, you know, there is not too much of a downside.
One of the things is that when you are a part of these accelerators, you do tend to meet a lot of people very quickly.
And that also comes with, you know, you got to be able to take feedback in the right way and also know how to filter out feedback as well because you're going to get so many different opinions from all sorts of people.
So it can sometimes lead you astray if you really aren't focused on what you're trying to do.
Omer (19:24.000)
I want to go back to something you said earlier about marketing and how to position the, the AI assistant in a way that was easier for your target market to understand.
And part of the challenge here, as I understand it, is that you're dealing with a legacy industry in many different ways and you've got people who maybe aren't the most tech savvy and don't necessarily understand a lot of these terms when you start talking about AI or whatever.
So talk a little bit about that because I think that's a challenge that I see quite often where it's easy for a team to start talking about terms that make sense to themselves, hey, AI platform, blah blah, blah, whatever.
But from a customer's perspective that might mean something completely different or it just is.
Like for these guys it could just be gobbledygook.
So what have you learned from that experience and what are some things that we could take away on how to do a better job to sort of articulate what your product is all about?
Sonny Patel (20:47.290)
Yeah, so we, you know, because at the end of the day, like what we offer is a fairly complex solution if you really were to dig into it.
But the challenge has always been, you know, how do you simplify it enough where anyone can understand what we do?
Right.
So we have stayed away from the buzzwords, right?
AI, machine learning.
But you know, all the usual stuff that most tech people would understand.
But we are selling at the end of the day to usually a business unit leader or an executive that may not know too much about, you know, these next gen types of technologies.
So we always keep, you know, most of our marketing materials and the way we even sell the solution business oriented.
So we talk more about like the business outcomes that the solution can drive for the company.
We utilize a lot of their terminology instead of ours.
So we have done extensive customer interviews to really understand how do they view the world and how do they view technology and how it can impact them.
And we kind of did a heavy amount of research into to really understand how they operate.
And then we kind of took that and then just kind of threw it right back at them, you know, so the same words that they would use and how they would lay things out, just really try to understand this specific customer profile because it is different.
And as you mentioned, we're dealing with not only legacy systems, which are very old, outdated systems that a lot of these companies use, but we're dealing with legacy processes as well.
So the way they do things can sometimes feel a little outdated.
But we've tried to understand why they do the way they do things and then legacy people, so it's an insurance in general is an industry that has people that are in the older age categories and we're a younger team.
It's a newer type of technology that addresses a newer, more younger customer segment.
So it's been a challenge.
But you really have to understand how to speak their love language.
And that varies.
That language varies whether you're speaking to a customer, an investor, a team member, you Know, you just got to be adaptable.
Omer (23:04.660)
Yeah, I think that's a great, great insight.
And every industry basically has their own language and it's super important, especially if you're not from that industry, to understand what those terms are and make sure that you're using their terms, not your terms, if you really want, want to, to connect with that target market.
So how does the product get sold?
So once you get leads through, what happens?
Does it go to a demo and then eventually a proof of concept?
Like what are the different stages you go through here in terms of sales?
Sonny Patel (23:43.170)
For the most part, we always do a proof of concept.
So our customer segment insurance companies, they always want to try and test a solution in a beta environment or on a smaller scale before they would adopt it at scale.
So we will get that lead in, we'll have a couple of calls with them, share what our solution can do.
We identify what kind of the main low hanging use cases that we can apply Violet to.
So we identify that use case with them and then work with them on generating an ROI analysis as well.
Because they won't bring anything in unless it can clearly generate more money or save them money in some way, shape or form.
So we work with them hand in hand to create that ROI analysis and then we move into actually going through that poc.
We work with them on figuring out, you know, if we had met success criteria that we had laid out and then hopefully we, we do during that POC and then move that into a longer term commercial agreement.
So it can get a little complicated.
But we've tried to simplify it by building out an insure me playbook.
So if a company comes to us saying, well, oh well, we want Violet to automate home insurance claims, then there is a playbook on how to do that and which stakeholders need to be necessary, what budget they need to have in order for this POC to happen, as well as, you know, discretionary funds ongoing so they can afford the licensing cost.
And so we just make it, we've made it very simple, you know, almost like an IKEA manual like experience where you just go step by step and you're on your way.
Omer (25:23.200)
Okay, so how long does a typical sales cycle take from the point where you get the lead to closing a sale?
Sonny Patel (25:33.360)
So for us it's about six to eight months.
It's a fairly long sales cycle in this industry simply because of the complexity of the sale and the number of stakeholders that need to be a part of making that, you know, that sale happen.
We have tried to shorten that sales cycle by being the leaders throughout the process.
And so hence why I mentioned we have the insure me playbook where it makes it super easy once they have made that decision that they want the solution to go through all the other steps that include contracting, security review, customization and so forth.
So we have, you know, we're aiming to shorten that sales cycle down to hopefully three months or less.
But it's just the way, you know, this industry operates.
Omer (26:19.510)
And what's the, the sort of the typical average contract value for one of these deals?
Sonny Patel (26:27.030)
Yeah, so for us it ranges between 100 and 250k ARR for each deal and then we do POCs for between 30 and $50,000.
Omer (26:37.890)
Okay, I'm curious on a couple of things.
First of all, you said you, you sort of go through and help them figure out the, the ROI or the return on investment.
How do you come up with that?
Because on the, on the one hand the cost part is, or the investment part is straightforward.
It's like, hey, you're going to pay this much for our products.
But how do you calculate the upside or show them the benefits?
And how do you turn that into something measurable?
Sonny Patel (27:06.490)
Yeah, so we work with usually the business unit within the, within the company.
So if we're working, if the application is violent for claims and we'll work with the claims team to understand what their current processes look like.
So we will do a full review of every single channel and how somebody can file a claim and we estimate what the time would be to, you know, obviously file that claim, how many people need to touch that claim and quantify that into a financial metric and then we compare that to what we think we can do with Violet.
So how much time can we save out of that experience?
Are we able to, you know, essentially shorten that claim cycle and reduce the overall cost of claim and then benchmark it, you know, side by side to show essentially, well, okay, these are your current channels and this is the way you currently do things and this is probably what you're spending from a cost standpoint.
And sometimes they'll even know that some companies don't and you have to be a little bit more hands on.
But we then compare that to what we think Violet can do for them.
So whether that be for the POC or at a full commercial, at full commercial scale, we give them those estimates.
So then they can see, well, okay, you know, we spend a $50 per claim going to the call center, but with Violet, it's going to be $0.30 on average, we're saving, you know, $1.20 on each claim.
And then compare that to a million claims a year.
It's quite a bit.
Omer (28:36.190)
Got it.
Okay, so what I'm hearing is that the way you show them the upside is number one, by saying, you know, you're spending 100 person hours on this every month, and with Violet, you could save 90 hours, which at whatever typical hourly rate works out to this much of a cost saving.
And then the other upside you're showing them is from getting to A to Z to process a claim, for example, it currently takes this much time.
And by using Violet, we would reduce that and you would be able to respond to a customer in 10% or, you know, whatever that, whatever that metric is, is faster than they're doing currently.
Sonny Patel (29:28.630)
Yeah.
And so the KPIs vary.
Right.
So for each use case, they're different and they will touch both the enterprise as well as the customer.
So if, you know, again, going to the call center may be a little bit more expensive, but it's also a more frustrating experience for the, for the customer.
So we are showing upside even on a higher net promoter score and better customer satisfaction as well as cost savings.
So there's multiple fronts when it comes to the benefits of the product.
Omer (29:59.310)
So you talked about the playbook, and it sounds like you have a fairly established process now in terms of how to go through a proof of concept or closing a sale.
And I think that's something is probably a great idea for every company to be thinking about doing.
But in the earlier days when you were going out and doing demos, I'm curious, what was some of the objections that you were hearing that sort of repeatedly were coming up and what did you do to go and solve them?
Sonny Patel (30:40.440)
Yeah, so I mean, there's always objections.
Right.
So I'd say the top ones are, can this integrate with what we're currently using?
Right.
So Ed mentioned legacy systems is one of the big challenges that every insuretech deals with because we all offer newer solutions that work off of APIs.
And then some of these customers don't even have core systems that have API access.
So the objections were always around, you know, can, can this integrate with what we currently use?
Another one has always been, you know, we have tried chat before and it didn't work.
Or how is this different from, you know, any other chat solution that's out there?
And, you know, we, we have differentiated ourselves in a whole variety of ways.
So now we don't really get that objection.
Omer (31:32.210)
But give Me, Give me one example of how you've differentiated there because I was curious about that as well.
Sonny Patel (31:37.750)
Yeah, so we have, in a couple of different ways.
So we have pre built integrations into some of the leading core system providers that are out there.
So really understanding that we can deliver a faster time to benefit for the customers because we already have a lot of these things built out.
We're a vertical specific vendor as well.
So we have a deep understanding of the insurance vertical and the applicable use cases.
We're not just a general chat provider again, so it's a, the product just generally works better and is trained on insurance specific inquiries.
And then we have, because we, you know, our every interaction is around the insurance use case, we've built in custom UX UI enhancements that are specific for walking a customer through a life insurance sale or auto insurance claim.
So just a better overall user experience than our general chat providers.
Okay.
Omer (32:32.470)
And any other objections?
Notable ones?
We don't need to go through the whole list.
Sonny Patel (32:38.110)
Yeah, well, and this is another objection I think that most other early stage insurtechs get is that are you going to be around, you know, 20 years from now?
And because when you like integrate so deeply into some of these larger enterprises, businesses, they want to make sure that there is business continuity and you're not just going to run out of money tomorrow and go out of business because that puts them at a very choppy space.
So always, you know, like, are you big enough and will you be big enough to support the scale that we would, you know, need you on?
Omer (33:15.790)
How do you address that objection today?
Sonny Patel (33:18.190)
So we, you know, what we say is that it's part of the risk.
Right.
I mean companies that expect us to be an IBM before they want to work with us, they're not our potential customer.
We are targeting people that understand that the new innovative ideas are going to come from smaller teams.
We have venture funding behind us.
Right.
So we're in a, from a financial standpoint where it's not like an idea or anything like that.
Right.
We're not going to go out of business tomorrow and we have a fairly good backing in terms of investors and current customer base that can support us.
So usually the social proof that we can offer combats that anxiety.
Omer (33:58.290)
The other thing I was kind of curious about was you're what, 24?
25.
Sonny Patel (34:05.238)
25, yeah, 25.
Omer (34:07.330)
And you're dealing with an industry because we've talked about the legacy industry and probably a lot of people that are quite a bit older than you, what have been some of the challenges there on a personal level, just, you know, getting in front of these people and sort of building credibility.
Sonny Patel (34:28.499)
Yeah, I mean, for me, personally, I won't lie.
Like, it's been a great time.
Like, they have all kind of embraced the vision.
And ever since I started the company, never really came across people that were arrogant or anything like that just because they were older than me.
People, for the most part, have been receptive in the overall vision, and I think they could see that somebody, you know, because we're solving like the, the millennial or next gen customer engagement problem.
Right.
And so who better to solve that than the person in that, like, group?
So I think they, they realize that on day one, it's been hard because it is a little intimidating.
Right.
When you're.
You're just straight out of school and then you have to go and talk in front of hundreds of people.
And it's like you almost have that imposter syndrome, you know, and I still do today, but it's almost like you get.
I felt like I've got thrown into the deep end, you know, and.
But you learn how to swim really good if you are thrown into the deep end.
Omer (35:26.720)
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's something that I've.
I've sort of heard before as well as of, of founders who sort of going into.
I don't want to use the word stale, but you know what I mean, it's just like, you know, sort of like some of the older industries, whether it's like, you know, banking or investment, and some of the challenges that they've had to face in terms of people saying, well, you, you're just kind of getting into this.
Like, how can you possibly kind of, you know, tell me what to do?
I've been doing this for, you know, 20, 30 years.
And yeah, I mean, what I really like, what I'm hearing with you is, is sort of, again, going kind of go back to this playbook and also having these, you know, you get to a point, I think once you've had enough conversations with customers that you really start to see what are those objections that you're hearing repeatedly, and you start to get better at, at addressing them and having better answers.
Sonny Patel (36:22.030)
Yeah.
And I think one, one more point to add to that, like, you know, we've always positioned ourselves and even myself, like, as a, as a partner to this industry.
So I never use the word, you know, disruption and this and that and, oh, sucks.
But, you know, even though you may be thinking it, but like, you have to, you know, I see the value in the work that, you know, all of these people have done for hundreds of years.
And it's almost just a, you know, a mutual respect, I think, that's been built.
So that's why I, I've never felt like I was dealing with a group of people that were, you know, not receptive to what we were trying to do in the market.
Omer (37:00.920)
Yeah, I like that.
And it is kind of a, you know, disruption might be cool if you're, if you're kind of talking to tech people, but going into an industry and like that and saying, you know, I'm here to, you know, I'm here to disrupt everything is probably not the.
Sonny Patel (37:15.420)
No, no, we're there to improve.
I mean, that's just myopic to even say disruption, but the.
Yeah, especially for insurance.
I mean, these are companies that are.
Do billions of dollars of business a year, so, you know, they do know something about something.
Omer (37:33.660)
Yeah, totally.
So I, you know, I, I sort of asked you this before we started recording, but, you know, kind of just want to kind of COVID that again.
Is there anything you sort of look back over the last four years or so and wish you'd done differently?
Sonny Patel (37:49.250)
Yes and no, because, you know, I value the journey and even, you know, some of the mistakes I've made because it's given me the opportunity to learn.
So I think if you do everything perfectly the first time, then what are you really learning?
Right.
But hindsight is 20 20, and I think if I had to do this again, yeah, I don't know, I would make the same mistakes because I'd learn the same lessons.
And these lessons have been valuable, but if I were to pick any, then it would be maybe, really, maybe speaking to more users of the product.
So not just the actual buyer, because we've done a lot of that, but the actual end user of Violet, we would have done, I think, some more UX UI studies, things like that to make sure that the end user is having, you know, a delightful experience chatting with Violet.
Also on the company side of things, I would say we maybe could have hired our sales leaders a little bit earlier on instead of trying to, you know, get.
Get some of the early customers on our own without that.
So sales has been like, was at least a gap on our team up until this past summer, which we now have a great VP of Sales, Lindsay.
But before that, I would say I probably would have hired somebody like her a little bit sooner.
Omer (39:14.930)
Okay, let's wrap up and move on to the lightning round.
So I'm going to ask you seven quick fire questions.
Just try to answer them as quickly as you can.
Sonny Patel (39:22.930)
Okay?
Yeah.
Omer (39:23.810)
What's the best piece of business advice you've ever received?
Sonny Patel (39:27.700)
It would be Enjoy the Journey actually.
Omer (39:33.460)
What book would you recommend to our audience and why?
Sonny Patel (39:36.900)
Entrepreneurial Leadership by Joel Peterson.
Because it's a book that brings in a plethora of views from various types of leaders, business leaders, political leaders, military leaders.
It's just a really overall great book to read if you are building something while trying to be a leader.
Building that thing that makes sense.
Omer (40:04.180)
Yeah, totally.
What's one attribute or characteristic in your mind of a successful founder?
Sonny Patel (40:09.379)
Empathy, I think is one thing that most of the successful people in general in the world usually have.
Omer (40:17.220)
What's your favorite personal productivity tool or habit?
Sonny Patel (40:21.470)
For me it would be superhuman.
It's an email client that I think you can like get it for 30 bucks a month.
But it's just, it's really great.
You can blow through your inbox every day and it has like so many cool features that you know, the general like Gmail email suite does not have.
Omer (40:38.590)
I mean that just on a side note, I think, you know, Super Human has done such a great job in terms of honing in on the target market of people who are, are happy to pay $30 a month for an email client and would be extremely disappointed if they didn't have it where.
And they've sort of ignored the people who are like what, 30 bucks a month for email?
Sonny Patel (40:59.590)
Yeah.
Omer (40:59.950)
Great lessons there.
I think you know that that on its own is a great case study.
Sonny Patel (41:04.230)
Yeah.
They know their, they know their customer.
Omer (41:06.310)
Yeah.
What's a new or crazy business idea you'd love to pursue if you had the extra time?
Sonny Patel (41:11.030)
I would, I don't know, probably.
I like, I travel a lot so I have a lot of like travel related ideas.
But I probably like if I again you're asking me like a crazy idea was maybe start like an airline but not in the United States in an emerging market.
Omer (41:27.800)
What's an interesting or fun fact about you that most people don't know?
Sonny Patel (41:31.400)
I went to high school in Zambia, in Africa.
I travel extensively around the world, like all the time.
But most people who know me know that I didn't know that.
Omer (41:42.520)
And what's one of your most important passions outside of your work?
Sonny Patel (41:46.100)
Traveling.
I think that, that that's the, the, the big one.
Fortunately now like my life has worked out in a way that I can travel a lot for work and then make it into a holiday.
But I travel a lot just in general.
So it's, it's a lot of on the go movement around the world.
Awesome.
Omer (42:03.220)
Cool.
Well, Sunny, thank you for joining me.
It's, it's been a pleasure chatting.
If people want to find out more about Insure Me, I'm going to insureme.com and it's a, that's spelled I N S u r m I.com and we'll include a link in the, in the show notes as well.
And if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Sonny Patel (42:22.970)
The best way would be LinkedIn.
So it's just Sunny Patel on LinkedIn, I think Sunny Patel 94 and then or Instagram that's unnypatel94.
Those are the two main things that I use.
Omer (42:35.610)
Sweet.
All right, great.
Thank you so much for joining me and I wish you all the best with Insure Me.
Sonny Patel (42:42.970)
Thanks for having me.
Omer (42:44.170)
Cheers.
